Couples interview

And today we have something very unique that was a great blessing this morning and that I think will be a great blessing for you, Jhonatan and I are going to be with Oprah and Steve Harley, Don Francisco, we want you to receive the Word of a new and different way, a dynamic way, today is the first day of our program "CLJ presents" and this is live in full color on the internet, everywhere.

Pastor Roberto: Yes, sir, and what we want is to present a theme that is very appropriate for the time we are celebrating, love, friendship, human relationships, and how the Gospel of Jesus Christ makes transformations possible in the midst of difficult circumstances, how God it changes bitter situations and turns them into something wonderful for growth for all who are involved in the Kingdom of God, so we want to do it by interviewing some brothers and reflecting on how faith can transform difficult situations.

The fact that we are Christians does not mean that we are exempt from the struggles and difficulties that every human being has to go through, the difference is in what, would you say?

Jonathan: The difference is in Christ, it is in Christ, in prayer and in developing an intimate relationship with the Lord as one lives with another person, and today we want to talk about that, about marriages that expire. We are going to talk about real stories of people in our Congregation who exemplify certain characteristics that we want to highlight today, and we are also going to be talking about the complexity of many marital relationships in our Church because not everything is rosy.

Roberto: Certainly, as I say we are imperfect and I believe that God designed marriage to serve as a mechanism for the growth and perfection of the believer, we know that marriage was there at the very beginning of creation and God knew that there was something very special in that relationship between two human beings who enter with their imperfections, with their baggage that they have and then they proceed to practically form a single being, and that in this process of uniting more and more they have to start leaving things behind; to forgive each other, to tolerate each other, to see the best in each other, to bring out the best in the other through the marriage relationship and it is a wonderful mechanism.

Jonathan: That's right, and we want to highlight the role and power of forgiveness in different types of relationships, couple relationships, family relationships, relationships between friends, and also the importance of reconciliation, of being able to reconcile, the different elements that are involved in that, the importance of leaving the past behind, right? and try to focus on the present with a view to the future.

Of course, but wait, you have seen Despierta América, haven't you? We are going to invite some people to come here, but we want you to applaud them, to have an uproar, okay?

Roberto: there will be a screen there that says: laugh and you laugh, clap and you clap, say "boo" and you go "ooh yaay" we have to encourage this, we have to encourage them otherwise people get bored.

Jonatán: The first couple that we want to invite, they are originally from the Dominican Republic but they met in Puerto Rico, on the island of enchantment, yes, they have been married for 11 years, two beautiful children, 9 years in our Congregation and we want you to receive With a big round of applause for Marino and Isabel López, a big round of applause, wooo! Welcome, welcome! I like it that way, I like it that way with energy (he greets the guests with a hug) cool, welcome Marino and Isabel to CLJ presents the inaugural program of our Congregation, tell me, how do you feel?

So that you have a little history they are a family that have been intimately involved in the life of our Congregation, for several years they have served in the I Wanna ministry, in the Sunday school ministry, activities with couples and they are a family young man that we chose to tell us a little about their story, how they came to our Church and what have been some of the challenges they have faced. This morning was a blessing and I know that this afternoon God will also touch many hearts.

Roberto: Welcome Marino and Isabel, since you arrived in León de Judá you have become very visible, you have done so many activities and I always on Fridays when I am walking through the corridors of the original sanctuary seeing you that you have been involved in life of our Church and it is difficult to think that a relatively short time ago you did not know the Lord and that you were going through a relatively difficult time, tell us how did you get to León de Judá, how did you find out about the Church, what led you to come to our Congregation ?

Isabel: Okay, blessings to all, thank you very much for the invitation. As Jonatán says, we met in Puerto Rico and from Puerto Rico we got married and we lived in Boston, so through the course of our first months of marriage they were very difficult, very difficult because I came with great expectations, many things that one puts it in his head and then the conflicts began, the problems, Marino and I loved each other very much, we loved each other very much

Roberto: And by the way it seems that they had been dating for 8 years so one would think: wow there is nothing to discover, everything is already well known but it was not like that, it is supposed that when they were married things changed? No? because there is another perspective.

Marino: Yes, the problems began after we got married, I continued as if there was the role of marriage but I was still single and that is dangerous, so that was my mentality

Roberto: In what sense did you feel single, in what ways did that manifest in your mind?

Marino: Well, I hadn't accepted the married role of being the head of the home, the responsibility that this entails, so that was affecting our marriage greatly.

Roberto: So how did you go from that difficult time that I understand was a bitter time when you were thinking we're going to get divorced, we're going to separate but something happened that changed that situation?

Marino: Yes, we got to the point where the first word was divorce because that was the way we thought was easiest, I mean, we had a little argument and my wife said: let's get a divorce.

Roberto: A question because I think that sometimes the family background has a lot to do with it. Would you perhaps say that the culture or the family background had an influence or not, or do you come from a family background, let's say, from an extended family or from parents where that did not exist?

Isabel: I come from divorced parents but I come more from that doctrine that: oh the woman without the man can! And I know that there are many cases in which the woman unfortunately must go on without the man, but there are also many opportunities to work on the marriage as it happened to my husband and me, and why not give the opportunity to heal our marriage and be able to get ahead?

Roberto: And how about you, Marine?

Marino: Yes, in my case my parents are still together but I always saw in the Latin custom that the man is the man and that he can do whatever he wants, that's a lie, we just have to understand and put ourselves in the role that when we are married we have a responsibility, a home and a wife that deserves respect and that we have to value.

Jonathan: Wow, that's a very interesting point because especially nowadays people know each other and they're already independent, they have their life made up, they have their social circles, whatever, so when they get together that changes and that affects the dynamics, right? ?, so is that what you mean when you said that you lived as a bachelor while you were married?

Marino: Sure, and we have to know that we are one in everything at home, we have to agree on finances, we have to agree on raising our children and on communication.

Roberto: And so they are having a difficult time, they are thinking about getting divorced, they are in crisis and I understand that something happened then that brought them León de Judá, tell us a little about that and how that beginning was, what resources and not so much León de Judá because León de Judá is simply an instrument, a space where you do your things, but something happened there that at least brought a ray of light in that very difficult situation that you were going through.

Isabel: Marino and I were Catholics and when we got here we said: oh we have to go to church but later, and I told him: well we have to go, and he said: next Sunday, and that moment never came, and then at the moment of brokenness in which we saw that our marriage was about to end, that Marino and I talked and he said: I am willing to do whatever you tell me to do to get my marriage back and not lose it, So I come with so much expectation, I came to work crying and I talked to my colleagues, and I told them: I don't know what's going on because my marriage isn't working out, and then a colleague of mine spoke to a friend of hers who came here to León de Judá and currently lives in Connecticut, and she told him like this: tell your friend to go to the León de Judá Congregation that they will help her there and I said: wow.

That firmness of that Word that that sister sent me, I said well: I started looking on the internet, I searched the page, I contacted Ada and Luis Payez because Marino said he was willing to do whatever.

Roberto: In fact, Ada and Luis Payez, a tremendously mature couple in the Gospel, have been married for many years and I don't know how many know that we have a team of people including my wife Meche, and other people who intervene in the counseling area, and thank the Lord those resources have been a great blessing over the years, including one of the things that we demand a lot is that couples take pre-marital counseling because we feel that a solid foundation is needed spiritually speaking to get married, and thank you to God for people like them, what role did they play in this transformation process?

Marino: Well, from my personal point of view, I came with a complete rebellion and I was willing to come to counseling and open my heart, and be honest with what I had failed, and when we met Luis and Ada for the first time, that love, that hug and that human warmth that they gave us where they made me understand that it was not what I thought, I thought: the evangelical Church is coming to prohibit what we are going to do, they are coming to change the way of thinking and then I remember very Of course, Luis told me: here we are not going to change anything and we are going to give you marriage counseling, and we are going to help you with whatever we can help, but the one who has to change is you (applause).

Roberto: Good, two things that I think are important to point out here is that we tell others about the Gospel like that friend of yours who told you to go to Church, seek the Lord, right? we have to let other resources know that there is in the Gospel, and secondly when those who are seeking come, let us say the unbelievers, the people who are in need of the Gospel sometimes come with misunderstandings about what the Church is and what it is. It is important that we receive them in an affable way, generously giving them time and space, and showing them the love of Jesus Christ that ultimately is what changes you the most.

Jonathan: That's right, that's right, and something very interesting about your story is that the person who referred you to this Church, you still don't know that person, right?

Marino and Isabel: We don't know who she is, we don't know her

Roberto: That's an angel

Elizabeth: amen, amen

Jonathan: Wow, we would have liked to have discovered it and introduced it to you here.

Roberto: If you are listening to us anywhere now come and identify yourself, call us at 5441-4455 (laughs)

Jonathan: Yes, if you are seeing us today, call us because your spiritual children want to meet you.

Isabel: amen (laughs)

Jonathan: But no, it strikes me that you found that affection, as you say, Marino, without even being members of this Church, you came to a Church that was completely foreign to you with another spiritual tradition and everything else. Was there a time when did you feel uncomfortable? How was that transition from the council to the Congregation itself?

Marino: Yes, in the middle of the counseling Luis and Ada invited us to come to church on Sunday and the first Sunday we came they gave us this piece of paper that one filled out with your information and it said: do you have any request you want us to pray for? ? and then I filled that paper with tears in my eyes and the usher who was near me ran and received that paper, and he saw that I put the request that I put was to pray for my marriage and he saw my face, and they began to pray for us, they invited us to a couple cell and to the glory of God that couple cell made a change in our lives.

Roberto: Extraordinary, I love it a lot, what I see in you that I like so much is that tenderness, that you were open, many times men are reluctant to admit that we need it, right? but I see that receptivity of yours and that is so important whether you are a man or a woman because many times we have problems in marriage but we do not want to make ourselves fragile, we do not want to reveal our weaknesses to others, but many times that internal brokenness is the key for God to be able to do something.

Marino: Yes, there was a very big breakdown inside during the course of the problem where I saw that I was going to lose my wife and my son that she told me: we divorced, I leave with the child and that's it, so I, there the Lord, without even having come to Church, broke me and I understood that I had to stop machismo, accept that I was wrong and that was when I told him: I am willing to go to counseling, to do what I have to do, I don't want to lose my family and ask for forgiveness, to accept that I was wrong.

Roberto: Divorce, obviously that word was there from early on. How do you see this idea of divorce when things get so sour and so difficult, what do you think looking back now?

Isabel: It is not an alternative for us because the Lord, as Marino says there was, he asked me for forgiveness, I forgave him and there was a healing. Now our love is different because it is past in the Lord, it is a more genuine love, more original because before one was based a lot on the physical, oh I like it, it makes me laugh, now it is a very different love. I see Marino in a very different way, he completely complements me, thank the Lord because he reflects the Lord in him, so that's why he's different.

Jonathan: Wow, good.

Roberto: Wow, that deserves a round of applause when a wife talks about her husband like that.

Marino: Glory to God, that's how I am in my marriage, I see my wife with a different love, I love her, I respect her, she is my partner, my advisor, that word is no longer in our vocabulary, thank God, as she said He healed us, we sat down and talked, and we said: this word of divorce no longer applies, I asked her: is that what you want to happen that we divorce? We sat down to talk and we said: so let's take that word out of our vocabulary, no divorce, and we work, we pray together and the Lord has helped us to improve so far.

Jonathan: Amen, amen.

Jonathan: Something very interesting about you is that it's been a combination of several things because the Church may have a lot of resources that the Church offers to the community but those resources really don't do much unless people have the availability and integrate, tell us a little about your experience integrating into the Congregation because the fact that you have been willing to join a group of cells, to join a group of couples, to open your hearts and meet other people has been key. , tell you about your life, tell us a little about it.

Isabel: Well, in the case of us, when we arrived at the couples' cell and there were many couples, we ended up being alone, we didn't have anyone here, it's so much like that when I finished my birthday we had to go to Puerto Rico because We didn't have anyone, today we have so many brothers, we feel so loved, having been in the cell and now being in the I Wanna ministry has made us bond here in León de Judá and our family knows it.

Today we are more than blessed by the Lord who brought us here, that He had His perfect plans and that has made us integrate more each day.

Roberto: And now I imagine that now everything will be fine, perfect, there is no discussion between you

Elizabeth: amen! (laughs)

Roberto: Everything changed, this is a romance 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, there is no problem, right?

Marino: No, we continue to be the human couple, we continue to have those moments of difficulty where there are moments of discussion, where we disagree, but I believe that communication, praying, being able to say: forgive me, excuse me that I did something that bothered and that she accepted my forgiveness or that she told me in the same way that I forgive her that makes a big difference.

Roberto: Any advice for couples who are going through problems and difficulties, something that has been key for you on this journey to defend your marriage?

Marino: Of course, seek the help of the Lord Jesus Christ who can do everything, congregate, in a certain way in the cells, in the groups, here there are groups of men that also help us to grow a lot, the cell that we visit from This couple was a tremendous help, there we had a family in Christ and we began to grow, to get to know each other in the Church, and I would give advice to any couple who seek resources, who have communication, who know how to accept differences, who are They can ask for forgiveness and forgive but there is a key that is Christ Jesus.

Isabel: One piece of advice that I would give to couples is to get together with similar couples, couples who encourage you to move forward, who are an example to follow because, for example, in the case of Marino and me, before we shared with a couple who They were not believers, each one went their own way and Marino did that, he went his way and I went mine, and being here has been the difference, seeing couples who are struggling to move on, who love God above all else. things and that every day they want to be better then I think that this is the best advice.

Jonathan: Yes, this morning you said that this couple with whom you were married was not very strong and when there were social activities you went with your wife, they went to another activity and that was something that woke you up. you.

Isabel: Exactly, that was a very difficult part because they lived together but they were separated, so when I came to live here Marino had already been here for a year and we went to activities, and I wanted to be with my husband, we were newlyweds and Marino would go with his friend, and I: I want to be with him and she told me: oh, leave it alone! Men annoy a lot, leave it alone, because she was on that wave and I: I'm not on that wave, so Marino was still there, I was here and that really didn't help us because that marriage was reflecting very negative erroneous things on us, so I said: Marino We're going to get out of here and that's when we met León de Judá and we were able to start walking.

Roberto: The importance of having that quality among us as a Church that couples with more experience, with more knowledge and spiritual maturity help and mentor others, I encourage you brothers to look for each other and young couples need to be mentored, they need people sponsor them, foster them, ask them out and give them good advice, and model what a healthy marriage looks like.

And we also have to give ourselves our time and have a paternal and maternal mentality to help others as well, give those opportunities to bless other couples and mentor them too because that is key, the Bible says that, right? let mature women seek out younger women and teach them to be good wives, good Christians, and certainly that for men as well. I believe that we are in a time when there is a crisis of masculinity in which our young men are not being taught to be a husband who protects with his life, who falls in love, who provides for his family, who has a certain role and the young equally too, so these young people have to make up the world practically in the morning light when they enter a marriage for which they are not prepared.

So we need to model good and healthy marriages and apply the Word of the Lord to those specific dimensions of human life, and not stay there in the spiritual stratosphere with simply vague expressions that do not reflect the Gospel, we must step on the ground and embody the truth of the Gospel.

Jonathan: That's right, something that I love about you two is that you have been very intentional in getting involved in the different activities that take place in the Church and I believe that this is key for anyone who is looking for community in a Church. The Church can organize all the events, but if you don't join those events, if you don't get involved with that group of couples, if you don't join the I Wanna ministry, you mentioned I Wanna, one of the The most beautiful things about the I Wanna ministry is that I love to see you sharing with other families and I like to see men, a small group of men who start playing and I don't know what, and those relationships develop organically and move outside the Church.

When you come together now to share in children's birthdays outside the Church, it is a community that lives inside and outside the Church but this exists because someone had to take the first step of making it intentional and joining the group.

One of the problems is that people always complain that: no one looks for me, no one calls me, in that Church no one greets me, but I believe that the key is to say: I am going to get involved, I am going to do part of this and I'm going to start being part of these people.

Roberto: Thank you guys for sharing your life with us.

Jonathan: Yes, but wait a minute, Pastor, wait, wait, don't go ahead, something very important!

Roberto: Do we have more? Whoa, okay!

Elizabeth: (laughs)

Jonathan: We are going to play a game now with Marino and Isabel

Roberto: but they already know the questions, everything! (laughs)

Jonathan: No, no, no, we are going to play a game because we want to get to know them a little more thoroughly and you are going to answer us in the same way that you answered this morning without thinking twice, just your first instinct, okay? ? Marino grab me here, Isabel grab me here (he hands them some signs with answers to the questions they are going to be asked: Me, He or She)

Jonathan: Okay, who's the worst driver?

Elizabeth: (Me)

Marine: (She)

Jonathan: Haha, okay, who drives faster?

Elizabeth: (He)

Marine: (Me)

Jonathan: Okay, okay, who is always late for activities?

Elizabeth: (Me)

Marine: (She)

Jonathan: Hah okay, who's the strictest dad?

Elizabeth: (Me)

Marine: (She)

Jonathan: (Laughs) Okay, who's the best dressed?

Elizabeth: (Me)

Marine: (She)

Jonathan: Who is the best organized?

Elizabeth: (He)

Marine: (Me)

Jonathan: Who lasts longer in the bathroom?

Elizabeth: (Me)

Marine: (She)

Jonathan: Who is the most sociable?

Elizabeth: (Me)

Marine: (She)

Jonathan: Who is the one who eats the most?

Elizabeth: (He)

Marine: (Me)

Jonathan: Who sleeps on the right side of the bed?

Elizabeth: (He)

Marine: (Me)

Jonathan: Who cleans the fridge?

Elizabeth: (Me)

Marine: (She)

Jonathan: And who cleans the bathroom?

Elizabeth: (He)

Marine: (Me)

Jonathan: Who parks better?

Elizabeth: (He)

Marine: (Me)

Jonathan: And who initiated the first kiss?

Elizabeth: (He)

Marine: (Me)

Jonathan: Very good, very good, thanks for joining us, thanks for coming!

Isabel and Marino: thank you! (they say goodbye to the Congregation)

Roberto: A privilege to have you with us, thank you for sharing your lives, it is a blessing to have you in our Church, God bless you

Jonathan: Amen, a round of applause for Isabel and Marino López, how cool, how cool. Well, but this does not stop here gentlemen, we have another very, very special couple also Pastor, a slightly more mature couple with a very different background, she is Guatemalan, where are the chapines here in the Church? and he is puerto rican

Roberto: A recipe I would say for a difficult marriage

Jonathan: You know.

Roberto: However, God has blessed them with 25 years of married life.

Jonathan: 25 years of marriage and Pastor, they are a mixed family, each one has a past and they brought a son into the marriage, and then they had a daughter together, and that also represents certain risks and certain challenges in the relationship

Roberto: In fact, I think I had something to do with them meeting and getting married, I was a kind of cupid for them too

Jonathan: (Laughs) That's right, that's what I heard, we're going to welcome Carolina Barrutia and José León with a big round of applause, very good, welcome!

Robert: Welcome!

Jonathan: Carolina is the administrative secretary of our Congregation for more than 16 years. José how are you, I always change José's name and I call him Luis, even this morning live I told him Luis and the Pastor made me correct but, José, José León welcome to our program CLJ presents

Roberto: José and Carolina we have gone a long way as they say, they have been with us for many years, the years they have been married and maybe a little more, so they have here in Congregación León de Judá, one of the two families and of the two people who mean so much to many of us, and by the way Carolina, when our Church was beginning to develop in the movement of the Holy Spirit God used Carolina a lot in the prophetic area, in fact Meche my wife was very blessed by Carolina in her ministry and in her own pilgrimage to seek more of the Holy Spirit, and to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Carolina was vital in that for which we thank the Lord, she plays a precious role here in the Church filling in so many gaps.

Joseph is an example of a transformed life, he came to León de Judá when his life was practically destroyed and the Lord has made him go from being a person who spent many years in prison and the Lord took him out of a federal prison , and it has become a tremendous resource for the Kingdom of God and for the Church, so for me these two represent two of the most dramatic testimonies in León de Judá of the God who transforms, who renews, who restores and here We have them married and happy, 25 years of marriage, what a thing, no one would have said it seeing this Guatemalan lady with all her culture and so fine that she is, and so cultured, and José has already hardened enough but he was a little boy from Woolster there when she married with a very difficult past but a very sensitive, very special man, tremendous inner wealth, and one would have thought: wow, a Guatemalan and a Puerto Rican, this is against nature, this should not happen, but here they are like a testimony of God who can take very unexpected paths.

Tell me a little about your journey, how you came to meet each other like this and what God did, what God had to do so that you could become a couple as you are today, a blessing to all.

José: It was a long process I would say, it was a process where many people were involved including the Lord, as you mentioned at the beginning that you were like Cupid? It was your fault

Roberto: I am to blame for everything

Jonathan: Every time you fight, you remember the Pastor (laughs).

José: If you will allow me, I am going to tell you a little about what happened, when Carolina and I had a friendship, Carolina and I were never dating, we were just friends and we were friends that although we were always together, wherever we went Anyway, we were looking for each other, and then circumstances came up that confronted me, Carolina's son was 16 years old at that time, and he called me asking me why his mother had come crying and was crying all the time, and well, I told her I answered that I did not understand why, so he tells me: you know what? That I think you should marry my mom, there

Jonathan: Her son told you that when he was 16 years old.

Roberto: Straight to the liver

José: So, as they say, I was left with my mouth open, I didn't know what to say, so I told her: okay let me talk to her, we talked and on the phone, and I said to her: you know what? We must speak with a person who loves us very much and esteems us very much, and for me he is closest to our Lord, and he is our Pastor Don Roberto, so there were certain circumstances where we met with him, the Lord created the circumstances.

I remember that when he talked to me he told me these words: I see you married and you are going to be like two brands taken out of the fire that the Lord is going to unite to bless many people

Roberto: Tremendous, I don't remember that but glory to God

Carolina: That was the topic of our wedding, when you spoke at our wedding you talked about it, what you had told him that we were two brands taken out of the fire and that we were going to minister to many people, I'll lend you the video so you hear yourself

Roberto: So many years have passed since then that I don't even remember what year

José: Then I remember that we decided to join the Central Baptist Church, there we went down to the basement and there was Roberto, there was Carolina and I was there, I thought that the Pastor was going to confront us because of what we were doing or what we were thinking of doing and well we started talking, and he told us: I believe that this is from the Lord and we are going to set a date, and I: oh, oh! And thinking about it, I said: well, maybe December or next year, he stared at his notebook and said: on August 4th I case them.

Carolina: And it was June

José: And me: what?

Roberto: I was more daring in that time and I have become a little softer

Jonathan: I think he's still daring (laughs).

Roberto: Yes, well, then you and I will talk about it.

José: Well, well, I said: we don't have anything, we're just beginning to work and Roberto said: if it's from the Lord, He's going to provide everything, and that's how it was, until now he's provided everything, he's provided, he's given me more and It has given me a lot to bless other people

Roberto: One that I have always believed is that sometimes we look, couples look for obvious compatibilities, right? In the case of Marino and Isabel, they are both Dominican, but you know a couple that is beginning their married life and a number of things that one would say: well, you will not have any problems, however it turns out that they did have problems because I was not there. the Lord and in their case they then had to tell the Lord so that those affinities would truly manifest then, in your case it is the opposite; It would seem that there was no affinity because they came from different backgrounds, marriages already broken, past the two because the two.

You see here this lady so well behaved but she also has her story and her past that the Lord healed her. But you came with all that baggage, but what I always thought is that if God is in the matter, He will take care of it and everything will be arranged to combine everything and bring everything to His, and I always say that because many times there are couples that I I have married that it would not seem like they have a chance to succeed, but I have felt in my spirit that no, there is an underlying, internal affinity established by God. When that is present and the Lord is present, any difference can be passed and it can be reconciled, the important thing is that the Lord is present.

Now you are getting married and it was not a completely clear path either, there were times when the pineapple turned sour too and there were difficulties

Jonathan: Tell us a little, Carolina, about your decision to join because in our family we have several mixed families, there are children from previous relationships, and this morning you commented on something about your parents' reaction when you told them that you were interested José, that you were going to marry José, tell me a little about that

Roberto: By the way, that doesn't mean that all chapines think that way about Puerto Ricans.

Carolina: Not all Puerto Ricans are what my parents thought, I don't want to offend anyone

Roberto: Exactly

Carolina: At the moment that José and I decided to get married, my parents were very afraid that I would marry again, I was divorced. In the society that I belonged to in Guatemala, it was a society where marriage is respected, my parents had a 50-year marriage where they always loved each other, it was a beautiful marriage, my uncles were the same, so for them it was very important who I went with to get married in this country, and one of the things that scared my mother was that he was Puerto Rican and that he had a criminal record, and for her that was very hard, until I sent her the cassette of José's testimony when he I had given the testimony in our Church and that lightened my mother's heart and blessed our marriage, because it was important for me to receive the blessing of my parents, but I myself wondered why I was marrying a man like José.

I shared this morning that when I read Dr. Cho's book, The Pastor of Korea, The Fourth Dimension, there was an example of a woman who wrote a letter to the Lord with a list of what her husband wanted and I did it, I wrote him a letter and I put everything I wanted in a husband

Robert: Robert Redford type

Carolina: (Laughs) No, I told you in the morning that he was very well complemented, he took good care of himself in New York, still Pastor, still

Roberto: It is seen, it is seen

Carolina: And in this letter the Lord was not giving me two things, that is, he was giving me one that I had asked for and another that I had not asked for, and one was that I was a Pastor, and the other was that I wanted to be a Pastor from a Church but it was giving me no Pastor, everything else met the requirements especially because I loved my son and had a good relationship with him, and that was something very important to me, and the second was that he had a criminal record. And I said to him: Lord, how is it possible that you are giving me all this and this was the most important thing? But God always, always put peace in my heart and the love that God put in my heart for Joseph was not of this world.

There is something that I always when I talk to women is: in the world women see the physical, we see what the man has, my first marriage my first husband was a man with farms, from a lot of society, with a lot of surnames in my country , accepted by my parents, blah blah blah and it was a total disaster, disaster, disaster. When I came to the Lord after what affected my life so much, I realized that the man that God gave me had to be a man who loved God above all things, the rest was added, I did not have to see his position , his university degree, including his family, his past, it was his heart, what he was, what God had transformed in him and this love that the Lord gave me for him transformed my life because he was for me the complement of what that God wanted to do His Will in my life, without Joseph as a complement I was not going to get where God wanted me to get.

And one of the important things that we rarely mentioned in the morning was the participation of our children in our marriage because I came with Carlos Roberto who was already 16 years old, thank God he was not a boy who caused problems but his problem was his rebellion against his own father and accept an authority above him, and José came with his son Gio, Giovanni, an 11-year-old boy with a dramatic background in Puerto Rico, and it was very difficult to accept and adapt to these children that mine was not his and his was not mine.

When José's son came to live with us, it was traumatic for me because I had just given birth to my daughter Gabriela, who was from us, and we had Carlos Roberto, who was already 18 years old.

Roberto: And by the way, his coming was the answer in prayer because you hadn't seen his son for years

Carolina: Years that she did not see her son

Roberto: And I remember when José got out of jail and I met him for the first time, he talked about the pain he had for not having seen his son and not having been the father his son needed, and his ex-wife was totally reluctant to for him to see it, and the Lord did a tremendous miracle and brought him back to Joseph's life, and then this came to complicate the situation, it was a miracle that God did

Carolina: Yes, it was a miracle but as a stepmother I was reluctant to take responsibility for a child that was not mine when I already had two very big responsibilities, but the Lord has always been so good and always when He speaks to my heart, He What made me see was that Gio coming into our life was because God had something great for this child, that is, if he came into our life it was because God wanted him to be blessed, then my duty and obligation as José's wife it was to help him with his son but it was not easy, it was very difficult and you were a key part of this situation because you helped us a lot, the Church as such helped us a lot.

I mentioned in the morning that Nancy Miranda, your sister was indispensable, she was the godmother of our wedding and Nancy helped me incredibly in that situation, the same as Sofía and Hugo Pérez who are no longer here but were there in the morning, they were keys as people of the Church, as people who love God in helping us.

José was more at peace, as José's heart no longer doubted that we had come into his life because God wanted it that way for him but I had doubts

Roberto: And José also had his own drama but something very interesting and very beautiful Carlos Roberto is that he also had to go through his own process, this is also a lesson for mixed families who sometimes have to enter married life with the background of adolescent children many times, but God has done beautiful works in you.

José: In my case, then, when we got married and we came to live together, Carlos Roberto came to live with us, when he was around 16 years old? and that as the man of the house I began to take authority and command, to command him, to order him to try to get him to do things that he might do, that I thought I was doing well and I didn't realize how to force him to come to the Church, push him and push him to do certain things, and there was a rebellion from him towards me, instead of seeing each other as father and son, we sometimes saw each other as enemies, right?

And I began to pray, I prayed to the Lord and I said: Lord, how can this problem be solved? The Lord answered me and said: Just be his friend, be his friend. When I decided to be his friend, I treated him as one treats a friend, that is, a friend calls you and you are there for him, he tells you the problems and you advise him, and that is what I did, being there with him.

Well, he grew up and we continue to grow together as a family where he already began to change and from there he began to call me dad, like dad, right? Right now, these days, well, his children call me grandfather, they call me grampa, and well, I like it, and he introduces me wherever he wants as their dad. A few months ago, when we were together and we were sharing behind his house, he told me: I want to talk to you, and I: okay, no problem, and we started talking and he said: I want to apologize, and I tell him: why? do you have to apologize? And he tells me: because of how I behaved with you, and he tells me: I want to tell you that now, at this moment, there are two people in my life that I admire and one is my grandfather, and the second is you, for me that was an honor, a bliss.

In other words, love is very important in any human being, as a child, as an adult, it is very important and that was what God put in my heart for that person.

Robert: Terrific. Brothers, we congratulate you for the example that you are for this Congregation, how God has used you and is using you to bless this community, this Church as well as the work, the evident work that God has done in your lives.

Jonathan: That's right.

Roberto: You are no longer brands taken out of the fire, you are already lamps that shine in our community and are a great, great blessing to all of us.

Jonathan: Carolina, to finish with you, this morning you said something very important when we asked you what advice you give to the mixed couples in our Congregation who are younger, who are just starting out, what did you say this morning? ?

Carolina: First of all, love each other, a lot of prayer, seek the Lord and do His Will, because if He put us together it was not our will, it was not our decision, it was His decision, so our advice is: do the Will of your Father. If your Father has given you, I am going to add this, if your Father has given you a child that is not yours, he comes into your life because God has a purpose with that child but also with you, because Gio is now a man and he does not call me Carolina calls me mom and loves me as mom, I am not his mother but for me he is my son and for him I am his mother, and I think that the acceptance of receiving these little people in our lives makes a big difference in their lives, it is the Will of the Father.

Jonathan: That's right and I really liked what you said this morning about perseverance, to persevere, to stand firm, to fight, thank you, thank you

Carolina: The word is fight, fight, fight the good fight because the enemy is looking to destroy families, and we were two destroyed families, he with his son and I with mine, each one with a totally different but destroyed past and the Lord gave us put together, then Satan does not like that because if he destroyed us he destroyed our three children, then it is staying in battle, staying together, making decisions together, authority together, fighting the good fight together because the problem lies in separation , but a lot of knee.

Jonathan: Amen, thank you very much Carolina, José, thank you for sharing with us, God bless you, a big round of applause for Carolina and José please, thank you very much! The production team is telling me something that was not in the script but I want to invite Pastora Meche to come up here, yes, where is Pastora Meche? Come up here, we have time, we have time

Roberto: I want Meche to say a word, even as a comment about what you have experienced, what you have heard

Jonathan: A round of applause, gentlemen, welcome Meche, it was the production that told me Meche not to worry! (laughing)

Roberto: Well, listening to these two couples as a person who has a lot of experience in counseling and instructing couples, what do you highlight, a thought? We want to hear you

Meche: What makes the difference between not only the Lord accepting His Work is assuming our responsibility for our part in the problem. Unless we don't do that, unless we don't have introspection and there is true repentance, a desire to return to Him and to receive from Him, to be treated by Him then there can be nothing. And now that the other thing is to be members of the same team.

What often happens is that when we have problems, one becomes a fan of the Yankees and the other of the Red Socks, and then there begins to be competition, fights, we are members of the same team. I cannot be effective if I am not in harmony with him and he cannot be effective unless he is in harmony with me. We still have differences right?

Roberto: Few, some from time to time

Meche: It's been 32 years and we have, like any couple, there are different opinions, different ways of doing things, different temperaments because Roberto and I are totally different, there are very few things temperamentally

Roberto: But little by little I am teaching him to be better

Meche: What happens is that sometimes I don't let myself be taught a lot

Roberto: Do you see how things like that come to light?

Meche: But within the difficulty what always unites us is that the Lord gave it to him as a gift and God gave it to me as a gift for him, that is indisputable, and if so, then we must do the best of each day, each day is a new experience, a new opportunity to show love, serve each other, seek harmony and that in itself is an adventure.

One of the things that I have learned as a woman, it is good to learn that very early, but it is not to resist God's process but to submit to God's process, understand what God wants to teach me, and get excited, and enjoy myself in the process even when it is difficult because I know that if the Lord is in the process something good will come out.

And after 32 years, almost 33 that we have, look brothers, if God gave me this opportunity again I would fall in love with him again and dedicate my life to him.

Roberto: Definitely the same from me. When we let the Lord work in our marriages in our lives God brings us what we need, God uses marriage to form us, and even the difficulties of marriage to get closer to Him and to make us more, is the instrument as Christ as only God can invent it, what marriage is to sanctify us, in that daily friction of the couple learning to forgive, learning to have a long-term vision, to see what is hidden there, the positive that God is going to do, to have faith, hope, forgive each other when we are offended, many beautiful things

A question that I want to ask you as a counselor that God uses you greatly, I always say that Meche is a much better counselor than me and I prefer all the couples that I can and that she can with all the time she has to her being his counselor because she has a truly God-given gift for counseling, but in light of your counseling experience, what would you say is one of the most important qualities required to get you off the hook? Seeing couples who have come to you for marriage counseling or remedial counseling, what have you seen that makes the difference so that these couples get out of the stagnation in which they find themselves and can enter a stage of true spiritual growth?

Meche: I would say that the first thing is to want with all your heart to honor God within the relationship, that is what makes the difference. The couples who go ahead, who accept the advice are the couples who want to please their heavenly Father, when that element is not there it is very difficult, it is not impossible but it is very difficult and I would say the second thing is to recognize the responsibility of each one in carry this forward because no one changes anyone. At the beginning of our marriage we were sometimes, I wanted to change him, I was like: uh, ah! And he: Meche but! We were working in opposite directions until we realized that we are members of the same team and each one has to take responsibility.

When I began to grow in my affairs and he in his that made all the difference and that is what I see in couples too, when each one says that it is my responsibility to work on this it is not to change the other it is to accept: I have to grow in this area and I am going to grow, not only because of my partner but because I want to please the Father and because I know that it is something good for me, and if I work on myself the other will also work on theirs. If the two of you are wanting to please the same Lord, then that is the formula for success in a marriage, go ahead and continue working together on what needs to be changed.

Roberto: What role do you think transparency plays? (applause for Meche) Okay, clap if you want, these are very important truths. What role does transparency play, making us fragile, accepting our weaknesses, what would you say?

Meche: It is essential, it is essential to be transparent, again to accept everything as we have mentioned, we all come to the wedding with a baggage, many of us bring a small suitcase but others bring a whole set of suitcases to the wedding, and then we have to first recognize Look, transparency is for example: I failed in this, forgive me, I shouldn't have done this, I shouldn't have said this, I shouldn't have done that, that's what transparency is, but then transparency has to take place in an environment of security. I cannot make myself transparent if my husband is going to bring me a bazooka and he is going to shoot me with a bazooka.

Now if there is a true desire to honor each other I can be transparent, in my fragility it is accepted and I do the same with my husband, then that will promote more transparency. People talk about how in a marriage we have to make a safe place where the other can open his heart and not put what happens in marriage? We put on screens, we put up a barrier and we pretend to be what we are not or we harden, or we become bitter. God wants me to love Roberto as he is and God wants him to love Meche as Meche is, and within that obviously there are projects to work on, but we definitely cannot, if we are covering who we are, covering our need and not we let see who we are that is a deception, we are deceiving ourselves trying to deceive our partner and it will not bring us, it will not bring us closer to each other.

When I see Roberto being fragile, my desire is to immediately accept him and he does the same, we need to become more fragile and share more of who we truly are.