Seminar (Part 2) : Reflection on pastoral excellence

A reflection on: What is an excellent ministry, what is an excellent minister, what criteria or characteristics define excellence?

TRANSCIPTION - PART 2 (read PART 1 )

But, while I was listening to my brothers, a first attempt to define this at a generic level occurred to me, because I believe that the excellent ministry, rather than being defined, should be described in term of its characteristics, and in that I subscribe to the methodology of the Apostle Paul trying to define what love is. Rather, he ends up describing it: love is benign, it is long-suffering, it does not boast, it is not puffed up, etc. etc I believe that the ministry is rather described rather than defined.

But, I thought about the vision of our church that we have written at the entrance of the congregation and there I think that what we did in a sense was to put into words what was our sense of excellence as a ministry, what that we pursue as a church, and it could be a first effort in that direction. And I am going to read it, it says our vision as the Lion of Judah, it says: “to be an exemplary church that models the best values of the word of God based on the gifts and the fruit of the Holy Spirit, showing excellence in evangelism, community involvement, stewardship and training of its members to be effective servants of Jesus Christ.”

We could break down many of the key terms of that definition and there we would have, I think, a good effort to define what ministry is. But I'll just leave it there as a broader definition and I'll go into it like this, specifically on some points of what defines an excellent minister, for example.

I think that brother Alvin Padilla and everyone has actually already touched on all these things, what I'm going to do is rather qualify and add my own perspective. But one of the things that I would say about an excellent minister is a person who is in a perpetual state of growth, perpetual growth.

Alvin touched on the whole academic, study aspect, but I know he meant much more than that and perhaps even touched on it. I see that a person, an excellent minister, is in a continuous state of development. When I say that I see an arrow traveling in the sky perpetually towards a target that cannot be seen from so far away, and the arrow will never reach its target. This must be the servant, the servant of God, always growing, always developing, always seeking a higher level of development, be it at the level of personal mastery and character development, overcoming defects, growth in ministerial knowledge, relationships with your parishioners, with your colleagues, children, family, etc.

In other words, it is a continuous search for improvement, personal improvement, to become more and more like Jesus Christ and never thinking I have arrived. In everything that defines excellence, the servant of God, the servant of God is always looking for how I can improve, how I can take a little more from that marble statue that is being built and how I can bring it to reflect more and more the configuration It requires Jesus Christ, who is the model par excellence. So perpetual growth.

Number two: I believe that an excellent minister is a person who has a vital spirituality, a vital spirituality. The minister, the servant of God, receives the abundance of spiritual energy and the presence of the Holy Spirit in him or her. We even use the excess, I believe, of spiritual energy in us.

There is an energy that we need for our own consumption, to simply process the events of life, the necessities of life. And from that excess that God gives us through closeness, from that remain in me and I in you, from Jesus Christ, then arises an excess that we share with others and that we infect others.

I very much believe that the ministry is given more by contagion and impartation of life than by explanation or intellectual, academic teaching. So a vital spirituality is required, a being anchored in Jesus linked in Christ, linked in the word, a continuous, disciplined devotional life, which then results in an effervescence, a vitality of the spirit that allows us to touch others, impact others , inspire others, infect others, bless others. That vital spirituality is necessary.

One can minister for a long time based on human knowledge or skills, but sooner or later as it is not the life of Jesus, there is drought and there is barrenness and generally there is destruction as well. Only a spiritual vitality anchored in Jesus Christ can result in an effective ministry. So it is very important that the servant of God always seek a very high level of spiritual vitality. And when we feel dry or tired or burned, it's time to go back again to drink from the waters. life spirituality.

Number three: Competent within your crew. I say that because the Apostle Paul says, according to the measure of faith received. Competent within his staff in basic areas of ministry.

Each person has a different level of achievement, rather of spiritual endowment. The Lord gives to thirty, to sixty to a hundred, a hundredfold, each person receives a gift, receives a level of endowment according to God's call. Now, within that endowment, the servant of God, the servant of God and within their area of ministry must make a great effort to acquire competence, a basic level of capacity and performance within the areas that characterize their service.

In the case of the minister, for example, preaching, administration which we have already mentioned, evangelism, care of souls, and other things that we could point out. Those are basic things, they are the tools of the minister or the servant of God. If you lead, for example, in worship, it must be, for example, mastery of your voice, your physical appearance, your knowledge of choirs and hymns that can bless the church, knowledge of music, even if it is basic theory or a instrument, things like that, right?

Each one has their area of basic, mechanical competence. But we have to make sure that the tools of our ministry we can use skillfully and that we spend time studying how to be a good preacher, for example, what are the rules of hermeneutics or biblical exposition, or the history of the church, things that will inform our preaching.

So we have to spend time on those mechanical aspects of our ministries. And not live, as Sergio said, in an ethereal, abstract spirituality, simply in the clouds. No, there is a very basic, very mechanical aspect of ministry that is not very romantic but that we have to force ourselves to master. And I believe that this is where many ministers fail, many servants of the Lord, we simply subscribe to a vain and escapist spirituality that does not impel us to seek that mastery of basic things.

The runner running mile after mile, after mile, monotonously but honing his body and raising his endurance capacity. Just the monotony, the ability of the monotony... to endure the monotony and even derive power from the monotony is a very, very important thing in the ministry. So competency within your staff in the basic areas of the ministry.

Three things then I have said: perpetual growth, vital spirituality, competition.

A fourth very important thing has also been pointed out and I just qualify it a little more: integrity. We teach with our lives. Children learn from the continuous observation of their parents. And churches learn from continual observation of their leaders.

It's not just what we openly preach from the pulpit, that helps a lot. But every day I am more and more convinced that the moment of preaching, with all the power it has and the need for churches to receive good preaching, is actually minimal. It is in the continuous daily interventions, the observation of your people of how you perform in the conflict, in the crises, in the failures, in ministry challenges and how you get out of those things. Not necessarily unharmed but smelling of Christ.

That's what imparts a sediment of life to your congregation. That is to say, there must be integrity. Integrity comes from the word whole, being made of one piece. There is no fold, as many have said about the garment of Christ, they had to risk it all, they could not break it because it did not have pieces but was a single garment. And that is how the son of God has to be, the servant of God, the servant of God. We have to be of one piece. Within that piece there will be inconsistencies even at times, but what we do is that when there are those falls, when there are those defects, when there are those exits, the piece is immediately closed again, because there is confession, there is recognition of sin You have to humiliate yourself before others, give an account, all these kinds of things. And although there is a rupture for the moment, but that layer is closed again, let's say, that covers the life of the servant of God. So it is very important that there is that type of integrity, integrity in what we do.

A ministry, no matter how excellent it is in finances, in preaching, in evangelism, if there is no integrity, sooner or later it collapses. The devil is very observant and keeps very long accounts so that a lot of interest accumulates and at the right time then he destroys and destroys everything because he knows that there is an entry in the life of the minister who does not exercise that element of integrity, to close from something opens It's a better, more dynamic way of looking at integrity.

Fifth, the minister, the servant of God has to be biblically based, there has to be a biblical foundation. Christ says that he who does not sow in it, he who does not serve in it does not truly bear fruit. The ministry has to be based on biblical principles, biblical foundations, the word of God has to be the foundation.

And we have to be looking at the general tonality that the word establishes, saying, it resembles the tone that my ministry emits. And I'm talking about tonality because when you look at how a musician used those forks many times before, they were like forks, tongs for... a tone is given to listen to the tone it emits and see if the voice is in tune with that emission, that vibration emitted by that metal that is toned, toned at the exact level.

And we have to always try to ensure that in our ministry, our life there is affinity with the tone that the word of God emits as much as possible. We have to emit the same tone, and that's where it comes from, being biblically grounded. We have to always be looking at the word, searching, digging into the word of God to extract from it the principles that will govern and characterize our life as ministers, biblically based.

He has to be intimately involved with his flock. And there comes the element of transparency as well. Intimate rapport with our flock. The minister cannot afford to be an employee. That was what Christ meant, I believe, by the word hireling.

There are professions that allow a distance, even that often require it, for example the ministry of counseling or psychiatry or psychology, it is required to avoid contamination of both the minister and the person to whom it is is ministering And a certain distance is required, but I believe that the pastorate, the dangerous thing about the pastorate and the glorious thing about the pastorate is that our life, at a healthy level, has to be at one with our flock.

The minister cannot afford to be a 9 to 5 minister, and to maintain a pontifical distance from his flock. We have to love our flock, cry with her. Our flock contaminates us. Our flock makes us cry, our flock often gets upset with us and we with it. We bury them, we baptize them, we present them before the Lord, we go to their birthdays, we eat with them and that gives us material to minister to them. And at the same time we also bless you with our redeemed and also sinful humanity.

But there must be that rapport and there must also be that fragility and transparency on the part of the minister so that they can see you. That humanity fighting with God and in God is what blesses. I would also add there, authenticity, we could say: rapport, transparency and authenticity are three things that are united within that aspect of an excellent minister.

And finally there has to be a service ethic, there has to be a service ethic. The word of the Lord Jesus Christ that was pointed out previously I think it was Nelson, that we are called to serve.

The famous images left by the Lord Jesus Christ washing the feet of his disciples, correcting his disciples who wanted to sit one on the right and the other on the left, in the Kingdom of God it will not be like that, but rather the greater will serve the lesser, the greater will be like the smaller.

Nowadays, I believe that ministerial ethics have changed a lot to a certain point, and we see many ministers who are rather served by the flock and serve the flock. And many times they exploit the flock. I share the words of Sergio who also developed that dimension of the ethereal with the material.

And I do believe that many ministers are exploited and oppressed by our congregations and an excessive spirituality has been created in us and that is harmful to the life of the minister, his family, his children, etc. But there is also a balance that we have to have that I know he agrees one hundred percent, that we are servants. The word minister comes from the Latin which means to serve and that means that we have to have an ethic of service, of sacrifice. The rules that govern the life of the servant of God are not the rules that govern that of an ordinary man, of an ordinary woman. The priests did not inherit, they did not own land in the Old Testament, we often forget that. His inheritance was Jehovah.

Now they were being looked after and their well-being was being looked after. There were provisions for their welfare, but the minister, the servant of God, is in a different category. We have a glory to which we have access that the layman often does not have access to, but in this way we also have something that humiliates us and keeps us limited as well. We have both. So it's important.

We could continue but I think I'm going to limit myself to just that aspect of the excellent minister and then we can talk about other things later.

Let's give him a round of applause. We already see that they have brought us a large and large meal. The truth of the matter is that we can stay here for several hours discussing this beautiful and important topic. We now want to take the opportunity for 15, 20 minutes or half an hour maximum to be able to hear from you. I would like you to ask the panel questions or if you have a comment but remember that I am going to put up with someone when I ask for comments, comments not preaching, when we have another conference we invite you to speak. I speak from experience. Let's open it like this. Any questions? And you can address it to the particular person on the panel.

God bless you all. I know that we have talked a lot about various things in regards to pastoral excellence, but I would like to listen individually ....... it would enrich the people of God, what is, in three words, a minister of excellence? for you, three words nothing more?

A summary. Let's give them three seconds to think. We start with Sergio.

The Apostle Paul introduced himself as Paul, servant of Jesus Christ, one of the titles, he was a servant of Jesus Christ and obedient.

Let's take that three a little bit wider. Okay? Who else?

Likewise, faithful servant.

Serve faithfully.

A mime of Jesus Christ.

In the style of Jesus.

Servant, and one of the words I heard several times, fidelity and mine, adorer.

Any other questions?

.........spirituality and justice said that to live in the kingdom we have to live transformed relationships between nations, in the same nation and in piety. And today I was listening, I don't know who, I think it was Alvin, who was saying mercy and suddenly that word made me ring. And I want to ask a practical example of the difference between compassion, pity and prudence and mercy. I imagine they are words, there must be exactly some difference. I was thinking how can I really exercise pity with my peers, what a difference... I understand what it is to be merciful, but what is it to be pious, a practical example. How have you exercised mercy as ministers?

I was the one who used the word mercy. I used the word in its classical sense which means to be equal to God, the longing to be like God, which includes being compassionate, is one of the things that we forget, that one of the basic creeds of Judaism, which Christianity inherited as well, Exodus 34 that the Lord says, Jehovah, your God is a merciful God, that we do not forget that, attention, compassion to others and keep others in mind. Also to keep in mind when I say that you need mercy, something about mercy that we also forget is that Jehovah in the Old Testament especially repeatedly tells us that he cares for orphans, he cares for those who are immigrants, for widows , of the abandoned, of the despised, and that part because sometimes we think especially in classic evangelism here in North America that piety is how much one prays, how much one reads the Bible, how much one fasts, right? and perhaps how much he gives as an offering, and does not include the extension of compassion for the people in need.

My question is for any of the panelists. I listened very well, with the exception of Sergio Pérez, Alvin Padilla, and Roberto Miranda, the social dimension was touched on and it would even be, rather, a political partner of the church in terms of involvement in the community and also in terms of our role of being restorers and reconcilers, but what relationship does pastoral and ministerial excellence have to those contemporary issues for any of the panelists? For example, in my opinion, for me it is contradictory to see a church where the pastor is supposedly excellent but then the flock is nourished by an incredible spirit and culture of machismo, where women are subjugated, right? And these topics are a bit taboo, but what relationship does this pastoral excellence have with the leading or prophetic role of the pastor in denouncing these things of sexism, racism inside and outside the church?

Pretty heavy question, but important. Who wants to take it.

We remember that Paul says, we are ministers of a new covenant. I just wrote about 300 pages in English about a book trying to emphasize how we are ministers of the new covenant, the new covenant is one-sided, unconditional, proactive, grace-filled, mercy-filled, emphasizing power, empowering to others, instead of taking over, it is of continuous renewal and reaches intimacy. So there is like a 10 clause that we extract from Jeremiah 31, Hebrews 8, Hebrews 10 and all that, but that when one is an imitator of God..... be imitators of God as beloved children.

Second premise: as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. Conclusion: husbands love your wives, women respect your husbands, parents raise your children. Everything that is social, every interpersonal relationship is subject to being imitators of God and the minister par excellence, person, woman or man are imitators of God and do what God did with us.

They, as shepherds, are one-sided, unconditional, proactive, full of grace, full of mercy. They try, and speaking of mercy and all that, you give people what they don't deserve and you don't pay people what they deserve. Grace and mercy and empowerment, then there is no room for subjugation, there is no room for denigration, there is no room for manipulation, there is no room for any of the misdeeds we do in the name of culture because one is redefined by the grace of God, from whom every family on earth derives its name from God, means that it is defined and subject to the divine demand to be examples like Jesus on this earth.

John says, as he is, so are we in this world. So we reflect and also ontologically exhale what God has done through the spirit, the new character that the one who is in Christ is a new creature and there the previous verse, inclusive, verse 16 of Chapter 5 of Second Corinthians, ". .. from now on we know no one according to the flesh, if we even knew Christ like this, we don't know him anymore. He who is in Christ is a new creature…” what does it mean? There is no culture that is not subordinated to the supra culture of the love of God, the Holy Spirit, the new covenant.

So we're not here to emphasize our culture, whether it's Russian or Ukrainian or Hispanic or Anglo-Saxon. We are here to say, we are a new creation, a new creature and that from now on we know no one culturally, naturally according to the primary socialization we received, but we are resocialized by the Holy Spirit in a new pact to be new creatures and live a new life .

I even say that many theologians are trying to fish for what we lost in Eden, instead of looking to the future at what we are in the new Jerusalem. In the new Jerusalem there is no distinction, nor a discrepancy, but we are all in love, in Christ Jesus, instead of looking for who was first, who was second, if this dominates, if another dominates, egalitarian, hierarchical. All those things disappear when we see the parucia, the second coming. And that this day conditions this day in all social relationships, if we understand that we are ministers of a new pact, and we emphasize that way of being and relating, everything that is culturally oppressive, denigrating and stupid disappears in the name of the Lord.

Tremendous truths, that we are an eschatological people living in that time, but without breaking the tension, because we are already.... still and yes...... that we have to live.

I want to elaborate on what Dr. Polichuk says from another perspective, let's say, looking at him from another face. And it is, I think of two biblical texts: one is when the Lord says in his great commission, he calls us to disciple nations, disciple people or peoples; and second when Paul speaks of submitting every thought, taking every thought captive to Christ Jesus.

And in these two assertions there is a unique value and that is that the Gospel always, and the church is called to subject all reality to the values of the Kingdom of God. I believe that within that fits what is the prophetic call of the church, social transformation, community involvement.

I prefer to see it from a much broader perspective, from a call simply to examine the reality we inhabit in light of the values proposed by the word of God, and wherever there is a discrepancy our mission is to unify and subject external reality to the word of God.

And in that we remember what Romans 12:1 says, “do not be conformed to this century but rather be transformed....” etc. This idea that it is not that the world is not going to conform to the church, or to the word in its image and likeness, but that the church is going to conform the world to the image and likeness of God and the word of God. So our call, our task is to critically examine our surrounding world, determine what the word says about any reality in which we are involved and then bridge the gap between one and the other.

That solves the problem, for example, what should the church's position be on slavery? If the church had read Jesus as he should be read, not conforming to his preference and his flesh, but to his word, there is no place to enslave another human being, denigrate him, exploit him, oppress him, manipulate him. The message of the word is very clear regarding that, we violate it simply because of excessive sinfulness.

What does the word say about the woman and the man? We are going to look for it, we are going to... and in every possible way trying to isolate it from our own projections and social context, as Sergio said, and love as Christ loves the church. That is very clear, how did Christ love the church? It was given for her, etc., etc. there is much there that one can say. Just make an exegesis of it.

How does a woman hold on to her husband? As Christ is subject to the father, perhaps. I can also do an exegesis about that. There again, it is not exploited, the leader serves as Christ serves. There is all the dynamics contained, I believe, of a healthy, healthy, dynamic, interactive marriage, etc.

What does the word say about homosexuality or gay marriage today something that is very close? Well, we look for what the word says, we adjust, and here comes the prophetic ministry.

I believe that many times the church has put the cart before the horse and we have launched ourselves in search of a prophetic ministry, but in reality what we have to look for is a biblical ministry. And when there is a biblical ministry, a prophetic ministry arises, because we are inevitably going to be led to go against the world, against the current, against culture, because the world is dominated by a demonic spirit and the church is dominated by a divine, benevolent spirit. So there is the prophetic call of the church, very simplistic.

Yes, very good. Nelson, he wants to comment on something.

Yes, very brief. I was reminded of Second Corinthians, Chapter 1 where Paul speaks of the work of the Holy Spirit in him and in the ministers and therefore we later discover in the church, in a certain sense as creating a serum, a medicine in us for the community, to sometimes taking us to extremes.

And what I mean by this is that change starts here, many of us were not born here and have had to come here from other countries and then adjust to this culture and we go through that process ourselves. of change and internal struggles, etc. and we have to incorporate the biblical message in us, and we notice that in that process we are a prophetic message.

As the Apostle Paul said, we are open letters to all the people who see us. And what I want to reiterate is that we ourselves are a message to the culture that surrounds us. By simply responding and letting ourselves be changed by the Holy Spirit, and there was an emphasis on swinging the cultural pendulum sometimes there are different emphases that have to be emphasized and that's why God didn't send angels to minister to humanity, He put people of flesh and blood that we also have to react to these demands.

Very good, thank you. One or two more questions.

First of all I want to thank all of you for taking the time, and specifically talking about this topic. What my work is, apart from being spiritual, is secular. I work with the community and one of the things that attracts my attention is to see..... I live in love with that point that you brought about spiritual excellence. I thank Pastor Pérez for bringing up the point of the need to also break down that and expand that and also talk a little about what excellence is that the church has to have in the material area. But it also makes me a little sad, I have to admit, to see that we really lack enough, I don't know if it's education, which is part of the excellence that you spoke of, or perhaps resources, for us to really be able to carry out out and see that the church manifests itself in that area in what is social needs, which for me is that part that you mentioned, Pastor Pérez, of what is the material area.

And I, unfortunately, I would like, and you know I was thinking, is it a question or is it a personal comment, I don't know, but to what extent do you really see that the church at the New England level is getting involved in this case? Your Excellency, I can, I have read the books of Dr. Villafañe, I have been able to listen to the preaching of Pastor Polichuk, from Padilla I took a class in Cume, and obviously I know my pastor Miranda, but what I am going to do is, I am grateful that you have created programs, write books, but to what extent are we really seeing that church leaders and pastors are carrying out covering that point of excellence at that level of social need, that if all of you have churches I I imagine that the vast majority of them are immigrants. How far then do you see your church or the general church struggling?

I know that in the area of homosexual marriage we have been very active against all this, but there are other areas, it is not only that. So I would like to hear from you to what extent you really believe, or maybe it is not even necessary, because we each have different points.

Thank you. If you will allow me, I am here enduring not being able to speak. Those who know me know that I..... if you allow me even a footnote as they say, comment below.

The sister began by giving an expression that when Lucrecia looks like that, we have about 15, 20 students here, they looked at me right away because we are dealing with part of this topic in our class of introduction to the public ministry of the church , and something that we grasped yesterday and emphasized when Fernando asked a question, was that they made that dichotomy between material and spiritual, which makes me very happy that Sergio handled it very well, is that I do not accept those divisions of this is spiritual, and this is material.

The Greco-Roman mind, as Sergio well described, is dominated by this dichotomy: this is material and this is spiritual. The Iberian and biblical mind does not know that distinction. For me everything is spiritual, because everything has an impact, a spiritual element.

The question that we, who followed, was also whether the problem is that when we humanly think that the spiritual is superior to the material, we make a dichotomy that is not understood biblically and in life of Christ can not stand. The human being, if you push me to speak in chronological, logical terms, one says, the spiritual if we define it as the soul is first and the material is how to help it, this is second. But that is the human chrono. We live not in the chrono but in the cairos of God. In Cairo we see Jesus Christ walking, who is the main prototype, not dealing with spiritual and material things and making a dichotomy, he was all spiritual for the Lord, because in terms of our service what you see there is a person in material need of food, hunger, care, you do not know that you are preparing that life and that soul to hear the Gospel and for the love that you showed and the compassion that later responds to the word of the Lord.

We live and if we live the life of the spirit, we have to live and define the situation by the Holy Spirit to live it in the cairos of God. Although logically, chronologically we know that this here is first than that. When we have fallen into this dichotomy of thought, we are separated from ourselves, from the divine relationship.

We have to, as Paul says in Philippians, that I like to talk, we have to develop that fronosis, that mind, that renewal of mind that makes us think differently than what the world has put into us.

We have inherited good evangelists and pastors who have taught us through the years, but they always make that distinction. This material, this is spiritual. Let's get to the time when we can see the spiritual sense that encompasses the total reality. A ministry of excellence and here I thank Sergio very much, because that truth is a truth that the Hispanic Pentecostal churches have lost, and many churches that overemphasize one or the other. Many times the liberal is emphasized on the other side, the other is emphasized on the other side.

What we have to recover is that biblical mind that doesn't make us do those divisions so easily. When we begin to see that like this, we are going to see the hand of God working in those things that look so concrete and so mundane that we call them, and in themselves they are fundamentally spiritual.

Now, how the church responds in its preparation, aside as you alluded to, aside from study, preparation. For me, the point of a new understanding returns, a new revelation of the word of God. We have to return to the word and in recent years, to me more than anything, the person of Jesus Christ has dominated me more, it is interesting that we call ourselves Christians who follow Jesus Christ, but when one comes to search in the life of Jesus Christ one begins Let's see in itself, the knowledge, the strategy, the excellence of a ministry that encompasses an integral ministry. And I like that word that was used several times, it is an integral ministry that does not know this dichotomy that we are very commonly seeing.

I had, I'm not going to talk about it, but I have a teaching that I do the theology of the tooth where I talk about how the tooth has as much to do with one's spiritual life as anything, but I leave it for another time. Perhaps my colleagues have another comment.

I would only like to, it seems like a justification, because more than a question I hear it as a cry, as a request to our ministries to attend to that need.

A person, no matter how benevolent they are, I say by way of analogy, no matter how benevolent they are, if they have a rented apartment, they are very limited to bringing people. If someone owns a house, it is easier for them to develop their initiatives to help the poor.

Our hope to finish our project is very significant, perhaps more than people imagine, it is a physical platform to be able to attend to many needs of the community. That is our hope, our desire. We want to attend to this cry that arises from the community and from many people like you, so sincere, as a result of this powerful Gospel and such a blessing, but where are the results? And I receive it more like that. I thank you and I receive it as that current cry not to forget us, as Pablo said, I hope they never forget the poor.

Let me make one… about the Institute for Pastoral Excellence, in response to your question or observation. The Institute for Pastoral Excellence exists precisely to promote that kind of spirituality or broader ministry sensibility that we are talking about here. And I use that as a way of making an appeal to the ministers who are here, pastors, pastors because we have seen for example, it is a pity that we have not seen a better reaction - I say that, not as a criticism, but more well as a personal lament – of many Hispanic pastors who could very well benefit from this type of teaching.

And it is because many times the mentality of the Latino pastorate is still in that supra or super spiritual area of which Sergio spoke, so when we are told about counseling, administration, community involvement, education, which are some of the topics that we discuss in each of those retreats, in the long term, many pastors, or many ministers say, oh, that doesn't interest me. It does not lend itself as much, as I say, to glory to God, to Hallelujah! that makes our hair stand on end and makes us drool out of our mouths.

Now, if something is done about exorcism, liberation or prophecy...... because we want that, because it's tasty and it's what has taught us that we like it. But as I was saying about competition at those basic levels of ministry, that's where you actually measure a ministry, that's where a ministry goes up or down, or down. It is not many times in spirituality, in prayer.

I know many tremendously pious people who do not have fruitful ministries because they lack other things. It is a complete system where each part depends on the other.

I encourage my brothers to always think about that specific aspect of spiritual life. Let's always think about the specifics and not so much about the abstract or the spiritual and think about those unpleasant things. I believe that greatness is overcoming monotony, it is the ability to persistently work on monotony until you master something.

That's what's behind a great artist, a great musician, whatever, is the monotonous, persistent execution of details over the long haul. And that is what we have to learn as ministers and as servants. I encourage you, my brothers, not to disregard these things because they are what lead to ministerial greatness, the concrete, the specific, the personal.

Pablo has a comment. Then Omar and Ray, the ...... new and I think the time has come.

The Apostle John was very practical with his parishioners. He taught and in the last years of his life and even when he wrote his letter he especially taught that one must love. The new commandment the love of God. But then he says, in this we know the love of God, that he gave his life for us.

First John 3:16 says: “...and in this we have to show that we lay down our lives for one another. This is Love".

And then it says, verse 17 “...if someone has material possessions and sees his brother in need and does not help him, how can the love of God be in his heart? He's a hypocrite.”

When Ray Stedman had his church in Palo Alto with 200 people and then God blessed them and it was filled with 2000 people, I never forget what happened in that church in California. She raised an offering and it was said from the pulpit, if you have put, if you don't have take out.

....... they gave the blessing ..... Sergio who is raising

How many of you have raised an offering like this among our poor brothers, from those who come wet, from Mexico, of those who come without papers and who need, they have nowhere to drop dead, and you have because you have been here for several years, you have, it is not that you do not have because you are Hispanic. So if you have, if you don't...

Let's go to Polichuk's law firm soon. Omar.

Brothers of the Lion of Judah, that does not apply to you. That seems very good to me. Tomorrow we will be closely monitoring those who are....

Yes, I have a question and it was regarding a comment that Pastor Gonzáles made and it has to do with how one as a pastor in His Excellency it also imparts on other generations that have been rising as well. Dr. Padilla also made reference to this in the example of Pablo and Timoteo and I wonder now, that is, what could you say to pastors and even leaders of existing ministries now, because we are talking about generational aspects, the first generation did not think the same as the second or third generation. There is a difference in styles, in perspectives, although the essence may be the same, the essence of what the Gospel is but the styles are different, how could you answer that question about how at the leadership level, if I am honest, I see this panel and I see first generation leaders who are here on this panel right now, or am I wrong.

I mean, I say that they are one of those first to have arrived here and all that, that's what I mean, but since that excellent leadership and I use that word leadership more, not just at the level of pastors but leadership in general and ministries, how one generation informs another so that the emerging generations, and I use that word that is a very common word now in studies, that emerging generations can identify, define their styles, their perspective without losing an essence , but that it can be effective in the contemporary context in which we are living now.

Tremendous question. Who wants....

One comment and then my colleagues follow. And this is incredible, shocking because the negative aspect of this is that we tend not to recognize the efforts of those who came before and for me the word respect stands out in all of this, respect.

Because one of the things that I noticed recently in, let's say, a decade, in the past decade, was, there were expressions like these: everything I learned I threw away in a trash can. Wanting to highlight perhaps a new move, a new emphasis on the pendulum of the spirit and out of ignorance we set aside a mine of blessing that our parents have left behind. I just wanted to say that comment and leave it to others to pick up the rest.

Jesus had 500 people who believed in him, 70 who went from house to house, two to two, twelve who were always with him, 3 best friends to whom he gave special nicknames and one who was the disciples loved. There are concentric circles where one radiates, impedes, imposes in some way or participates in what one has.

Paul had a lot of people who believed but he had a close group that he stuffed into, he shared everything he knew, and he tells Timothy, what you have seen about me in the presence of many witnesses, these faithful men, apt to teach.

So one has some divine selection, if you will, because Jesus spent an entire night praying to select 12 people who were going to be the recipients of everything he wanted and then he went away and left them. filled with the Holy Spirit they did their work.

So for me the new generation has to receive from us everything that we know, feel, do and how can I transmit that. Not to everyone, because I can't, but to the few that come along and that the Lord puts in my path as a mentor, as a person who says what I have I give you, and I spare nothing.

With my disciples I gave them all my sermons, all my illustrations for them to preach, so that they benefit. Because? You don't have a monopoly on the truth. What one received by grace is given by grace. one imparts, gives, and as we said, not only didactic, it is life as Roberto says that they imitate you because they live close to you and so you have to be accessible, share and give to the few who will later radiate a circle after circle what one has given of that person.

I believe that one of the great advances that there has been in the concept of ministry at this time, in recent years is the concept that it has been poured into different names: discipleship, spiritual formation, mentoring , the cells. It's this idea that spiritual growth happens mostly in the context of sharing life with another person or with a small group and the idea that it's not so much, again, from the pulpit, from above, but more at a higher level. horizontal sharing of experience, confessing to one another, being accountable to one another, imparting the anointing of one on another, there are many images today that are used for this idea that most growth occurs in that sharing. mentor's intimate relationship with a male or female disciple, either on a small group or one-on-one level.

And it is a very, very powerful intuition, I think, that has come to the fore much more in these times than in previous centuries of the church. And I believe that one of..... and that leads us to something and that is that all of us, servants of the Lord, servants of the Lord who are here, should try to replicate ourselves as much as possible and pour our lives into others at that level. The people we work with, the leaders, taking time to talk, to share, to be transparent, again using that word, all that kind of thing, we have to find others who outlive us, even go above us, like Alvin said. Elwin was a teacher and now he supervises him, that's a beautiful image. We have to do everything possible to facilitate people who are much better than us in our ministries and then there has to be an ethic of mentoring, if possible, others and we have to adopt a position from... as much as possible I'm going to try to pour myself and pour my life to others.

Now, on the other side there is something very important, from that young generation, which is something that I am not sure I see to the extent that it should be seen, I was watching the video that you lent me, the DVD on worshiping in a post modern generation, worship in a post modern generation. One of the things that worries me about that video, although I share 80% of the importance of contextualizing the message.

Today's youth, this generation of 30, even 40 years and under, has been formed in values that are very different from previous generations. They have been raised on a diet of questioning everything, of skepticism towards the church, there are no absolute truths, everything is a version of the people in power, the deconstruction of everything, that is the specialty of this generation.

Behind all this there is a very important element that is the element of authority. This is a generation that is ultimately rebellious, that can be qualified a lot, but I believe that the big question for the generation of the 21st century is regarding authority. This is seen, for example, in what is human sexuality, homosexual marriage, the ability for man to reinvent himself, reinvent his culture, reinvent his body, reinvent his genetics, everything is the element of individuality, man versus God. , and that is the great controversy of God through all the centuries, it is the rebellion.

So, I see, however, that I am often concerned that in the generation, with its post-modern Christian good intentions, and in many of these very successful and necessary Christian groups, for example, one of the great churches that are raised there, that I know, I am not going to mention it simply out of respect, but the pastor is very pleased, not necessarily proud, this church says the average age is 22 years or something like that, 22, 24 years it wasn't much more than that.

That may be beautiful from one perspective but it worries me because most of the churches listed there are all youth churches and youth are not able to exist and thrive apart from the accumulated wisdom of the previous generations. The youth left to itself what it does is reinforce its defects and its disabilities and they simply become contaminated and those deficient genes that are youth are strengthened due to lack of experience, vision, perspective, brokenness, all the things that lead to nobility human. What it does is that it simply gets stronger and stronger in its flaws and requires dilution from old age and experience.

So, it worries me because behind that there is an idea that we know more and they are not going to consciously consider it that way, but it is very dangerous, and I see that young people who want to grow up, they have to solve the problem of authority.

God prospers those who submit to old age and authority, so on the part of those who are going to be mentored there must be an openness, a subjection, a willingness to learn and to be taught. They obviously have things to teach us, but old age also has its great advantages, I assure you. So I think it's very important that it goes both ways, there has to be a desire to impart and share and also a desire to be taught and respect and submit, both are important.

Very good, thank you.

I know some of the panelists are fans of... thank you very much. one way of saying or describing excellence would be to say, being excellent as ......... and he hatches the ball, but still his excellence in his effectiveness and efficiency as part of the team cannot be all his credit if there is not a Many batting behind or in front of him.

And one of my concerns when it comes to excellence is collective excellence. Individual excellence is one thing, many times we hear criticism that we have been here for many years and other groups come after us and reach higher levels, more excellent than us. I am concerned with the collective excellence of the ministry and the church.

There are other groups that know how to defend the cause of their people in a collective, complementary and collaborative context. The Pharisees had a model of excellence in being heard and speaking. They spoke through both mouths, two sides of the mouth. Brethren, the proof is in the results. We've talked about good things here that we're going to do after we get out of here.

It was more of a comment but very accurate in a certain sense. I believe....

..... and do......... how to come together and do what we can't do individually as a church and as...

Yes, I am sure that the answers that were given were not only individual, but implicitly spoke and had the sense of the community and the church. Perhaps Ray like others want to hear a little more specifically define, because that was a good question... I see it, define what is an excellent church because an excellent church implies that there must be excellent ministry, excellent leadership and the focus of this The conference has been more in terms of leadership than of the church per se, although we have approached it as well and Ray's question more encompasses the product or the understanding of that community that receives leadership excellence.

Then they ask at least what an excellent church is.

Three of the pillars of our ministry by experience, a beautiful revelation that marked our ministry at the beginning, is a focus on prayer, unity and the aspect of finances. Those are the three columns of the ministry vision. The theme of unity is a very fascinating topic for me that we began to practice it at the congregational level only, seeing ourselves as a body, recognizing that I was as important as the need for children's teachers, like the hujier, that is, seeing ourselves at the body level , that more than an analogy than when Jesus, or Romans and Corinthians talk about that we are the body of Christ, more than an analogy it is a reality, we are the body of Christ and members of one another.

Then came the time when the Lord took me to another level, ok, you've done it to the congregation level, now move it to the city level and from there came the desire to promote unity, or be part of the unity of what I was already doing at the city level, precisely believing, brother Ray, that God cannot be so exclusive as to have preferences to do something with only one ministry. I believe that God sees the church as a body and to deny that reality is to marginalize oneself when moving God in a city. And I think it's part of a kingdom mentality.

.................. to be able to work with everyone. I don't understand the ........ we have to begin to understand our own............... that before joining with other people in a practical destiny, we have to begin to . .........

.................. different things. The intention of the Pastoral Institute for this forum was simple, it was to present a series of leaders who were going to speak on a more individual topic and have questions that could respond to those answers that they have given, but not go into more particular detail. In other ways, we can stay here all day and what Ray is raising is very important and necessary to discuss perhaps in another forum, in another class, the truth is that we have to find the time to discuss all those details and all those concrete elements of our churches, because each one of us knows well, and I, the leadership here, knows well that even though we talk very nicely about excellence, there are many things that are not becoming very excellent in our churches.

And that needs a different forum. The conference, consultation, conventions, all these different forums have their particular goals, this is simply to provoke, to arouse interest in you about pastoral excellence with the idea that this begins a journey for other times to discuss in more detail.

That's why I think we don't have that much time and at the same time we can comment that the work done has been very good, but we can't go into all the particular details, Ray, which is surely important to you but for us too. For everyone it is very important, perhaps in another.

Any other comments to give you. Before finishing I had been asked to give a summary. Giving a summary of this is impossible. I took notes, but it would take me almost 15, 20 more minutes, but I would like to give him a little word or another of each one what he said, something that was of interest to me.

For example, in terms of Dr. Pablo Polichuk, for me above all the emphasis of the three elements of the sermon on the mount, as the basis of an excellent ministry is important in terms of character, conduct and influence . And by illustrating the theme of the fine linen of the minister, fine linen, saying that the minister, the excellent leader does not sweat. You fall for that thought out there.

Nelson González spoke to us about a definition of excellence, above all affirming 5 criteria that I believe are very important: personal dedication in service, the search for connection with other ministers, in other ways of seeking, of realize responsibility that is important, the commitment above all to family health, diligence in preparing the word and focus and without plurality, a very particular focus in your ministry.

Dr. Alvin Padilla emphasized above all fidelity to the word of God. In that case, using Timoteo, he spoke to us about a characteristic of a Scripture student and in his word well in Puerto Rican, soaked in the Scriptures, right? The minister who is going to be excellent has to be steeped in Scripture. It is not another that has to do with the capacity that had been discussed just now.

Avoid the influence of false doctrines, exercise in piety, an example of virtue and an excellent servant at work. I don't know why the last one fell like working, it will be because there are some pastors who are a bit lazy. I don't know, let's leave it there. God rebuke.

Reverend Sergio Pérez presented to us the need to restore that balanced ministry that encompasses the spirit, the soul and the body and presented something very important that we have touched on and a server, he stressed the importance of us having a biblical mind, the hebraic mind that a mind that does not know that false dichotomy of material and spiritual, which encompasses everything and the excellent minister discerns the body of Christ, his church, his congregation, to know when to emphasize one aspect or another and maintain the balance, an Aristotelian mean of gold. Golden means means that it is the discernment of God's cairos, when a church needs an emphasis here or another there.

Dr. Roberto Looking at his criteria or characteristics, he gave us 6 in a perpetual style of growth, in search of perspective, growing in knowledge in Christ and in relationships, a vital spirituality, competent within his area of expertise. his calling, integrity, biblically grounded and an ethic of service.

We can talk and comment more on this, but you can see here is a phenomenal study. Perhaps if I'm not mistaken, this is getting the hype, and it means that it will be accessible to those who want to buy it, because truly what has been shared here has been very rich, very important and God forbid, Osmar that we can have some time, perhaps a follow-up to this first day where, collecting the concerns that Ray and others raised for us, we can go into more specific details.

I hope that what we have had here has provoked him a little, has created a little appetite. They are going to enter the Pastoral Institute at CUME,.......... promotion for all.